AAS and Amino Acid use linked to hyoercalcimia and pancreatitis

Topic created · 16 Posts · 796 Views
  • N=1 I wouldn’t put much stock into this study until it’s been investigated further. I the man was a smoker and suspected opiate abuser (mentioned in study) so there was a lot going on and multiple potential causes for his condition.

    The study is 11 years old so iif hypercalcimia was a real problem for aas abusers I’m sure we’d hear about it more, especially among former Mr. Olympia’s and have more research

    Tl;dr don’t read too much into a n=1 study where there are multiple explanations for his condition. Steroids have been abused for along time yet we aren’t seeing all this damage to a large number of users and abusers

  • [quote=“Powerful77” pid=‘61950’ dateline=‘1563823300’]
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596162/

    How do you counteract this?
    [/quote]

    Looks like just another article demonizing AAS, without proving anything.

    Sort of like that dad that lost his son to suicide that went on a rampage against AAS back in the early 2000’s, leaving out that his son was a mental case and on gobs of antidepressants.

    My Questions.

    1. How much AAS was he taking.
    2. Did he accurately report what he was taking, did he leave anything out, could he possibly have been taking adulterated gear.
    3. How much Amino Acid Supplements was he taking.

    What we could have is a 24 year old idiot(we assume this because he smokes) that probably has no idea how fragile the human body actually is.

    Bottom Line: Legalize all AAS; manufacture them to high standards. Inform the public as to the risks, study these people and keep educating them, but most importantly keep them legal.

    No need for dietary supplements at all, moms homecooking and hard work, conservative use of AAS (no more then 200mg/wk) is all that’s needed.

    AAS abuse leads to problems, that is obvious, however anything that is abused can lead to problems and yet people don’t seem to freak out like they do over AAS.

    Time for the nanny state that is the USofA to legalize all drugs, get this stuff out in the open, let Americans have their freedom back.

  • [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘61954’ dateline=‘1563826752’]
    [quote=“Powerful77” pid=‘61950’ dateline=‘1563823300’]
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596162/

    How do you counteract this?
    [/quote]

    Looks like just another article demonizing AAS, without proving anything.

    Sort of like that dad that lost his son to suicide that went on a rampage against AAS back in the early 2000’s, leaving out that his son was a mental case and on gobs of antidepressants.

    My Questions.

    1. How much AAS was he taking.
    2. Did he accurately report what he was taking, did he leave anything out, could he possibly have been taking adulterated gear.
    3. How much Amino Acid Supplements was he taking.

    What we could have is a 24 year old idiot(we assume this because he smokes) that probably has no idea how fragile the human body actually is.

    Bottom Line: Legalize all AAS; manufacture them to high standards. Inform the public as to the risks, study these people and keep educating them, but most importantly keep them legal.

    No need for dietary supplements at all, moms homecooking and hard work, conservative use of AAS (no more then 200mg/wk) is all that’s needed.

    AAS abuse leads to problems, that is obvious, however anything that is abused can lead to problems and yet people don’t seem to freak out like they do over AAS.

    Time for the nanny state that is the USofA to legalize all drugs, get this stuff out in the open, let Americans have their freedom back.
    [/quote]

    I agree with you guys but I’m just doing everything for my own health.

    Wondering if anyone had heard of/experienced either conditions and the best way to prevent them.

    From what I can infer AAS van cause mineral retention, too much calcium is no bueno - also pancreatitis seems to be largely genetic but eating veggies and avoiding high fat foods and alcohol are keys there. It sucks because I rely on peanut butter to fufill many of my calories on days I struggle to hit my 6k. I’m talking like 1/2 a jar/ 125g of fat lol.

  • [/quote]
    From what I can infer AAS van cause mineral retention, too much calcium is no bueno - also pancreatitis seems to be largely genetic but eating veggies and avoiding high fat foods and alcohol are keys there. It sucks because I rely on peanut butter to fufill many of my calories on days I struggle to hit my 6k. I’m talking like 1/2 a jar/ 125g of fat lol.
    [/quote]

    Like pretty much everything AAS have postive effects; common, infrequent and rare side effects.

    The list is long.

    Buy an asthma inhaler sometime and fold out the insert, it’s like 6ft long 3 point print list of side effects including death.

    A conservative lifestyle in regards to AAS, eating, sleeping, and paying attention to your body is how you survive long term.

    We know the bodybuilder lifestyle is and can be extreme in every regard. Eating too much is hard on your system. It ages you faster. We know fasting is extremely healthy because it gives your body rest and allows it to clean up.

    I’ll be honest many bodybuilders or powerlifters aren’t healthy in any respect. I often hear them breathing heavy walking up stairs because they’re carrying too much mass, they use a CPAP at night. These are all signs you’re body doesn’t like what you’re doing.

    Solution: Use no more then 200mg total a week of anything, get in plenty of cardio, not 15 minutes a day, but are hard hour if you can five days a week. Learn to fast, not just intermittent fasting, but taking two or three days off from eating on a regular basis with plenty of fluids. Start your meals with salads filled with dark greens, cabbage, red/black beans, fruits, nuts and seeds. Load up on the wild caught fish…salmon, mackerel, sardines, herring. Don’t eat so much red meat as this is hard on your digestion.

    History has shown going back a thousand years that eating moderately with a large variety of health foods is one of the keys to longevity. If you consider there were monks living to be a hundred years old in a time when most were dead by 35.

  • [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘62004’ dateline=‘1563852074’]
    Like pretty much everything AAS have postive effects; common, infrequent and rare side effects.

    The list is long.

    Buy an asthma inhaler sometime and fold out the insert, it’s like 6ft long 3 point print list of side effects including death.

    A conservative lifestyle in regards to AAS, eating, sleeping, and paying attention to your body is how you survive long term.

    We know the bodybuilder lifestyle is and can be extreme in every regard. Eating too much is hard on your system. It ages you faster. We know fasting is extremely healthy because it gives your body rest and allows it to clean up.

    I’ll be honest many bodybuilders or powerlifters aren’t healthy in any respect. I often hear them breathing heavy walking up stairs because they’re carrying too much mass, they use a CPAP at night. These are all signs you’re body doesn’t like what you’re doing.

    Solution: Use no more then 200mg total a week of anything, get in plenty of cardio, not 15 minutes a day, but are hard hour if you can five days a week. Learn to fast, not just intermittent fasting, but taking two or three days off from eating on a regular basis with plenty of fluids. Start your meals with salads filled with dark greens, cabbage, red/black beans, fruits, nuts and seeds. Load up on the wild caught fish…salmon, mackerel, sardines, herring. Don’t eat so much red meat as this is hard on your digestion.

    History has shown going back a thousand years that eating moderately with a large variety of health foods is one of the keys to longevity. If you consider there were monks living to be a hundred years old in a time when most were dead by 35.
    [/quote]

    We all use AAS here (for the most part), but you are drastically misrepresenting the dangers of side effects of AAS. There are a laundry list of side effects from AAS, many more serious, complicated, and prevalent then your listed example, an inhaler. Add to that the fact that lots of injectable AAS have long halflives (5 days plus for pretty much everything except short esters), and the sides get more difficult to control. Add to that the prevalence of abuse, and you have a ton more dangers than a common medication.

    Healthy is a pretty loaded term, and it always will be. Who is healthier; a man who has no health complications during his life but dies of a heart attack at the age of 70, or a man who has constant health issues but lives until the age of 90? Someone who struggles with mental health issues during the bulk of their life but lives to an old age, or someone who doesn’t have these issues but dies young?

    The real solution would be to not use any AAS. You would also get more out of fasting this way. Taking Testosterone at a therapeutic amount if/when needed in old age. But people here aren’t going to do that; people who are or want to use AAS in general aren’t going to do that. Some might play it safer, but lots would still have a similar mindset as they currently do where they are essentially mortgaging the future for the present.

    As for your diet advice; I am not even going to touch that. Eat Paleo if you want, hell write a book on it for all I care (hint: someone already did, but you can try to do it too). I wouldn’t take the long-term health of monks living in a different time period as a guide of how to live a healthy life to an old age.

    I don’t disagree with you point about legalizing it and regulating it; I think that would be great and reduce potential harm to the community, as well as removing a lot of stigma that causes people to deny AAS usage instead of trying to deal with the problems it has created (“My head has grown because of deer antler spray” lol).

    And OP: that case study doesn’t really show much. It is a one-off, that basically says “Patient was experiencing this. Patient has admitted to using AAS and amino acid supplements in the past. We treated him for his issues. Now we are going to speculate for a long time about how AAS and amino acid supplementation could cause this, with a some scare tactics at the end.” And to add some further complications: The fact that he took anything was all self-reported. We know how accurate self-reporting is, especially when it comes to potentially illegal supplements. The patient and case study were done in Lebanon.

  • DNPstoney

    The most important thing is to legalize them. Completely get rid of all regulations, because if you don’t they’ll just do what they do now making you jump through hoops with your doctor to get what you want. The doctors in this country should be there to suggest, not mandate.

    We are drowning in laws and regulations. We need to legalize everything.

    There should only be one law in this country “keep your hands to yourself”…that encompasses murder, rape, assault, theft or damage to private property. That’s all you need.

    Aside from that you should be able to walk down the street naked smoking crack if that’s what you like.

  • [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘62115’ dateline=‘1563922285’]
    DNPstoney

    The most important thing is to legalize them. Completely get rid of all regulations, because if you don’t they’ll just do what they do now making you jump through hoops with your doctor to get what you want. The doctors in this country should be there to suggest, not mandate.

    We are drowning in laws and regulations. We need to legalize everything.

    There should only be one law in this country “keep your hands to yourself”…that encompasses murder, rape, assault, theft or damage to private property. That’s all you need.

    Aside from that you should be able to walk down the street naked smoking crack if that’s what you like.
    [/quote]

    NO. Public nudity is not okay and we already have the right to privacy within out own homes to do what you please. If you can responsibly smoke crack okay whatever. People shouldn’t go out of their way to police others but most of the time people smoking crack are NOT productive members of society.

  • [quote=“Powerful77” pid=‘62132’ dateline=‘1563930719’]
    [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘62115’ dateline=‘1563922285’]
    DNPstoney

    NO. Public nudity is not okay and we already have the right to privacy within out own homes to do what you please. If you can responsibly smoke crack okay whatever. People shouldn’t go out of their way to police others but most of the time people smoking crack are NOT productive members of society.
    [/quote]

    What qualifies productive? We have a huge parasitical class in this country called “elites” that talk down and control us.

    I’m capable of thinking for myself, I don’t need someone in control setting up a bunch of rules and laws that send millions of people to prison or scar them with records destroying their reputation.

    There is no objective way to qualify a persons productivity, because western society gives great respect to those that have the ability to control and manipulate others to work. Many people go to school and attain high levels of education to get paid, not for what they do or contribute, but to send a signal to society that they should be paid top dollar for who they are.

    Much of what people do in this country is of no real value, we live in a fast food society. You could eliminate at least 50% of the jobs in this country and we’d be no worse off, and probably better off with a more focused attention on things that are critical to our existence…clean healthy food/water, low cost affordable energy efficient housing, mass transportation/riding bicycles, practical higher education, basic universal medicine…ect.

    70% of the people in the USofA hate their jobs. It’s a 40-60hr prison from which they can’t escape. And it’s getting worse and worse as people lose their autonomy and the work environment becomes more controlling and manipulative. It’s not enough that you perform your little job, these a-holes want to climb inside your mind and F with you. Thus a huge percentage of the people are on all sorts of psychiatric drugs to attempt to numb their experience.

    This is why you have let it all fall apart, let society collapse as it is right now. Let people do what they want to do. Start being honest, taking control of their lives, making their own decisions. Stop being a cog in the wheel. Step off and wave the mindless idiots goodbye.

    And as for public nudity, that’s something we in America are hung up on because of our puritanical ancestors/religious nut jobs, Europeans don’t seem to mind it. Every man deserves the right to let the sun shine on his balls. It should be one of our most fundamental rights, enshrined in our Constitution.

  • [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘62004’ dateline=‘1563852074’]
    [/quote

    History has shown going back a thousand years that eating moderately with a large variety of health foods is one of the keys to longevity. If you consider there were monks living to be a hundred years old in a time when most were dead by 35.
    [/quote]

    At no point, post Jericho, was “most dead at 35” a thing. Lifespans always include infant mortality, to say nothing of the lack of modern medicine.

    People, after the agricultural evolution, were never “old” at 35. And most people who a)made it out of childhood b)never stepped on a rusty nail/got an infection/etc etc etc lived to ages that we would consider normal. Were there fewer 80 year olds? Yes. But old people have never been some rare curio.

    Not that there could be longitudinal studies done on the past, but I guarantee that people living to 100 were just as frequent among other people, besides monks with their “varied health food diet” for whom food was abundant.

    Making a blanket statement like "
    History has shown going back a thousand years that eating moderately with a large variety of health foods is one of the keys to longevity." is just words. Can that even be unequivocally demonstrated among living or recently deceased 100 year olds? The answer is no. At best one could demonstrate that people with lower bodyweights tend to live longer. Nothing even approaching clarity could be asserted about the foods they eat other than “they never starved to death.”

    Why a 1000 years? Why not 2000 years. 3000? Really 10,000 years works as well. Peasants living in stable political environments with arable land (say anywhere on the Italian peninsula for most of the past 3000 years) were in a position to make it deep into old age.

  • Bunch of hypothetical bullshit in this thread.

  • [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘62162’ dateline=‘1563953567’]
    [quote=“Powerful77” pid=‘62132’ dateline=‘1563930719’]
    [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘62115’ dateline=‘1563922285’]
    DNPstoney

    NO. Public nudity is not okay and we already have the right to privacy within out own homes to do what you please. If you can responsibly smoke crack okay whatever. People shouldn’t go out of their way to police others but most of the time people smoking crack are NOT productive members of society.
    [/quote]

    What qualifies productive? We have a huge parasitical class in this country called “elites” that talk down and control us.

    I’m capable of thinking for myself, I don’t need someone in control setting up a bunch of rules and laws that send millions of people to prison or scar them with records destroying their reputation.

    There is no objective way to qualify a persons productivity, because western society gives great respect to those that have the ability to control and manipulate others to work. Many people go to school and attain high levels of education to get paid, not for what they do or contribute, but to send a signal to society that they should be paid top dollar for who they are.

    Much of what people do in this country is of no real value, we live in a fast food society. You could eliminate at least 50% of the jobs in this country and we’d be no worse off, and probably better off with a more focused attention on things that are critical to our existence…clean healthy food/water, low cost affordable energy efficient housing, mass transportation/riding bicycles, practical higher education, basic universal medicine…ect.

    70% of the people in the USofA hate their jobs. It’s a 40-60hr prison from which they can’t escape. And it’s getting worse and worse as people lose their autonomy and the work environment becomes more controlling and manipulative. It’s not enough that you perform your little job, these a-holes want to climb inside your mind and F with you. Thus a huge percentage of the people are on all sorts of psychiatric drugs to attempt to numb their experience.

    This is why you have let it all fall apart, let society collapse as it is right now. Let people do what they want to do. Start being honest, taking control of their lives, making their own decisions. Stop being a cog in the wheel. Step off and wave the mindless idiots goodbye.

    And as for public nudity, that’s something we in America are hung up on because of our puritanical ancestors/religious nut jobs, Europeans don’t seem to mind it. Every man deserves the right to let the sun shine on his balls. It should be one of our most fundamental rights, enshrined in our Constitution.
    [/quote]

    I agree we could be much more productive in other regards that everyone would benefit from.

    I’m just saying there’s a very clear amd established set of morales that don’t include slinging your genitals around in public for children to see, or smoking toxic mind destroying chemicals.

  • [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘62162’ dateline=‘1563953567’]
    [quote=“Powerful77” pid=‘62132’ dateline=‘1563930719’]
    [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘62115’ dateline=‘1563922285’]
    DNPstoney

    NO. Public nudity is not okay and we already have the right to privacy within out own homes to do what you please. If you can responsibly smoke crack okay whatever. People shouldn’t go out of their way to police others but most of the time people smoking crack are NOT productive members of society.
    [/quote]

    What qualifies productive? We have a huge parasitical class in this country called “elites” that talk down and control us.

    I’m capable of thinking for myself, I don’t need someone in control setting up a bunch of rules and laws that send millions of people to prison or scar them with records destroying their reputation.

    There is no objective way to qualify a persons productivity, because western society gives great respect to those that have the ability to control and manipulate others to work. Many people go to school and attain high levels of education to get paid, not for what they do or contribute, but to send a signal to society that they should be paid top dollar for who they are.

    Much of what people do in this country is of no real value, we live in a fast food society. You could eliminate at least 50% of the jobs in this country and we’d be no worse off, and probably better off with a more focused attention on things that are critical to our existence…clean healthy food/water, low cost affordable energy efficient housing, mass transportation/riding bicycles, practical higher education, basic universal medicine…ect.

    70% of the people in the USofA hate their jobs. It’s a 40-60hr prison from which they can’t escape. And it’s getting worse and worse as people lose their autonomy and the work environment becomes more controlling and manipulative. It’s not enough that you perform your little job, these a-holes want to climb inside your mind and F with you. Thus a huge percentage of the people are on all sorts of psychiatric drugs to attempt to numb their experience.

    This is why you have let it all fall apart, let society collapse as it is right now. Let people do what they want to do. Start being honest, taking control of their lives, making their own decisions. Stop being a cog in the wheel. Step off and wave the mindless idiots goodbye.

    And as for public nudity, that’s something we in America are hung up on because of our puritanical ancestors/religious nut jobs, Europeans don’t seem to mind it. Every man deserves the right to let the sun shine on his balls. It should be one of our most fundamental rights, enshrined in our Constitution.
    [/quote]

    I am not going to specifically disagree with your views. I think most of them are valid, and the rest are highly personal, some are even political. Doesn’t really seem like someone I want to get into.

    I will say though that AAS laws vary heavily by country. Some are as easy as walking into a pharmacy and buying some Test. This study took place in Lebanon; I am unsure of the regulations there. But I know Turkey has a “walk into a pharmacy and buy whatever you want” policy. It may be different in Lebanon, but my point is that not all countries had the same regulations regarding AAS, so they shouldn’t all be treated as if they have US AAS regulations. In the UK, it is pretty much legal for personal use, but illegal to be a distributor AFAIK.

    As for the rest; I like seeing titties, and if I have to see a few balls to see those titties, so be it. Not like I don’t see balls everytime I look down.

  • DNPstoney

    I’m just saying there’s a very clear amd established set of morales that don’t include slinging your genitals around in public for children to see, or smoking toxic mind destroying chemicals.
    [/quote]

    Who established those morals and why would you let them speak for you. By who’s authority did someone decide what you can and can’t do?

    You stand on a rock hurling through space in a galaxy traveling 1.3 million miles/hr. We are all ants on a hill, there is no morality, no religion, no authority, none of it that isn’t a human construct.

    So yes you should be able to do anything you want, short of physically harming someone else.

    Ultimately authority leads to power, eventually to some idiot leading masses of people to do things they wouldn’t normally do…like war, genocide, mass slaughter. Unorganized people that are free to do as they please, while scary to some, is far less destructive then looking to an ultimate authority that is often a psychopath.

  • [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘62285’ dateline=‘1564047624’]
    DNPstoney

    I’m just saying there’s a very clear amd established set of morales that don’t include slinging your genitals around in public for children to see, or smoking toxic mind destroying chemicals.
    [/quote]

    Who established those morals and why would you let them speak for you. By who’s authority did someone decide what you can and can’t do?

    You stand on a rock hurling through space in a galaxy traveling 1.3 million miles/hr. We are all ants on a hill, there is no morality, no religion, no authority, none of it that isn’t a human construct.

    So yes you should be able to do anything you want, short of physically harming someone else.

    Ultimately authority leads to power, eventually to some idiot leading masses of people to do things they wouldn’t normally do…like war, genocide, mass slaughter. Unorganized people that are free to do as they please, while scary to some, is far less destructive then looking to an ultimate authority that is often a psychopath.
    [/quote]

    Shit bruh, you are getting reeeealy philosophical here.

    But I will answer some of those questions: Morales are completely a human invention. Other animals don’t have morals. A wolf doesn’t think about the morals of killing a baby deer. A cheetah doesn’t think about the morals of killing a gazelle who is a father. And thousands of years ago; humans also lived by a much different moral code.

    Some people believe in a higher power, and that is fine. It is their world view, and I don’t take anything from it.

    But as for the ultimate worldview; you are just going to get into a mixed bag as in “what is good for myself personally” vs “what is good for human kind (or my nation) as a whole” and that is a whole political mine we don’t really want to delve down here. This forum is about AAS, not political or religious jargon. These talks would likely just split our community.

    Ultimate authority leads to power… and as we have learned from the past (if you ever studied history), a vacuum of power is just an opportunity for the next person to step up. “Unorganized people” are just people who are fodder to be slaves to someone else. They aren’t “free to do as they please”. They are free, until someone kicks down the door and tells them they are now a soldier, slave, handmaiden, etc.

    The psychopath is someone that looks upon history and thinks “yeah, it hasn’t worked before, in a plethora of examples, but maybe, we will be the 0.001% where it will work! And there will be no dictators that want to take advantage of me! And no one will want to steal my house, property, or livelihood!”

    But shit; we have another Anarchist trolling in general. I guess I bit.

  • The thread was about something completely different, I just disagree with allowing naked-crackheadedness in public.

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