"Cleaning Receptors"

Topic created · 15 Posts · 932 Views
  • Would you guys say that dropping all anabolics and lowering test down to 100mg a week for 3 months or so would be enough to restore receptor sensitivity after a very aggressive cycle (3gram range)? Or would the only way be coming off completely.

  • More Plates more Dates maintains his body supposedly on 100mg a week. He didn’t start out on that but he says he’s trying to just stay in a natty range for health reasons and blasting ridiculous amounts is pointless. Even 200 is a lot in his opinion. Only blood work would really tell you though. You’re body in it’s peak throws out about 4-7mg a day of test according to his research. (found on google very easily) So using the test calculator going up to even 40-60mg a day seems freaking ridiculous now. This is just a guy who seems to do a lot of research and I’ve seen a handful of his videos and I did grow without doing massive amounts of gear.

    So using the calculator even 250 every 5 days is releasing around a peak of 45mg and a low of 13mg in the first week. This is why it’s funny at guys who do 500mg as a starting cycle. Like why? Even at 250mg a week is a super physiological amount.

  • No way that dude maintains those boulder delts on 100mg per week of test. Maybe 100mg per week of tren…

  • is receptor sensitivity in regards to gear even a proven thing? would appreciate some science dropped on this (no broscience or anecdotes please)

  • [quote=“appropionate” pid=‘60520’ dateline=‘1562926697’]
    is receptor sensitivity in regards to gear even a proven thing? would appreciate some science dropped on this (no broscience or anecdotes please)
    [/quote]

    I’ve personally heard it’s bro science because receptors upregulate not down regulate. It seems as though everyone says that you get better results after coming off for a while because you can utilize lower doses though. That’s why my question was if dropping my test this low is as effective as coming off completely when wanting to utilize that rebound

  • [quote=“appropionate” pid=‘60520’ dateline=‘1562926697’]
    is receptor sensitivity in regards to gear even a proven thing? would appreciate some science dropped on this (no broscience or anecdotes please)
    [/quote]

    God damn man, appropionate coming in with the real questions. I was so down to leave this as a “bro-science = But my receptors dawg” thread lol.

    AFAIK, no, there is no link between “receptors” (though, I am not sure what this means honestly) and too much gear use. The question become more hormones shifting down (such as Leptin and a few others that regulate homeostasis in the body) as mass is added on. As well as an uptick of myostatin (and likely other hormones) that starts to limit how much muscle mass can be added in a certain amount of time.

    Granted, most of the studies (and therefore, scientific data) we have is based off of rat and sometimes cattle models, but AAS are not widely studied in humans at this time.

    OP; 100mg would likely be enough to stop any potential loss in muscle mass if you are also lifting (with high intensity) and eating a high protein diet. Personally, I would suggest a bit higher, as 100mg/week would likely not put you in ideal levels of Total Testosterone and Free Testosterone in your blood. I would suggest 6-8 weeks of ~150mg/week, getting bloods around the 6 week mark to dial in your dosage, to prevent muscle mass.

    Tbf though, 3 grams of gear is a bit ambiguous. Would want to know your general compounds used (specifically; how much test did you use? And what were the other compounds?) and what the esters were. 3g of Test Prop, NPP, and Tren A are much different than 3g of Test U, EQ, and Deca if you know what I mean.

  • [quote=“DNPstoney” pid=‘60525’ dateline=‘1562931075’]
    The question become more hormones shifting down (such as Leptin and a few others that regulate homeostasis in the body) as mass is added on.
    [/quote]

    Could you elaborate on leptin (aka the satiety hormone) downshifting with gear use, and how this may relate to homeostasis (iirc leptin shifts down when dieting as to halt underconsumption of calories and thus weight loss, leading to maintenance/a yoyo effect which could be coined homeostasis aka a return to ones set point)? I have a unique predicament - my leptin levels, both fasted and post-prandially, are always immeasurably low aka zero, and multiple doctors and endocrinologists haven’t been able to figure out why despite endless tests - leptin deficiency is extremely rare, and leptin resistance would still show leptin present post-prandially, so if you know anything, I’d love to know.

  • [quote=“appropionate” pid=‘60535’ dateline=‘1562941544’]
    [quote=“DNPstoney” pid=‘60525’ dateline=‘1562931075’]
    The question become more hormones shifting down (such as Leptin and a few others that regulate homeostasis in the body) as mass is added on.
    [/quote]

    Could you elaborate on leptin (aka the satiety hormone) downshifting with gear use, and how this may relate to homeostasis (iirc leptin shifts down when dieting as to halt underconsumption of calories and thus weight loss, leading to maintenance/a yoyo effect which could be coined homeostasis aka a return to ones set point)? I have a unique predicament - my leptin levels, both fasted and post-prandially, are always immeasurably low aka zero, and multiple doctors and endocrinologists haven’t been able to figure out why despite endless tests - leptin deficiency is extremely rare, and leptin resistance would still show leptin present post-prandially, so if you know anything, I’d love to know.
    [/quote]

    The research I have read on Leptin isn’t superwell understood; i.e. it isn’t nearly as understood as testosterone is. There have been many, many studies which have shown increase leptin levels to be indicative of higher bodyfat percentage. Then again, women normally have 2-3 times as much Leptin as men. It gets more complicated since the majority of studies and literature that we have is done on rodents (rats specifically) and it has not shown to have much causation in humans.

    My only advice would be to try injecting Leptin and see what happens and how you feel. Tbh, though I have no idea where to source it from, what exact protocol you would want to use, and I don’t think I would be as much help as a licensed doctor would be in this regard. As well, tbf, if you were planning on injecting Leptin, it would likely cost more than $500/day and require two injections per day. No offense; but I doubt you are Elon Musk and want to devote ~200k/year to injecting a compound you think might work, but are very unsure.

    The only thing I can offer to you are most of Lyle McDonald’s books in PDF form which include many references to leptin (as well as other hormones that are active through weight loss and gain). I wouldn’t be able to provide the studies for you at the moment though, they are pretty much all behind a paywall.

  • [quote=“DNPstoney” pid=‘60525’ dateline=‘1562931075’]
    [quote=“appropionate” pid=‘60520’ dateline=‘1562926697’]
    is receptor sensitivity in regards to gear even a proven thing? would appreciate some science dropped on this (no broscience or anecdotes please)
    [/quote]

    God damn man, appropionate coming in with the real questions. I was so down to leave this as a “bro-science = But my receptors dawg” thread lol.

    AFAIK, no, there is no link between “receptors” (though, I am not sure what this means honestly) and too much gear use. The question become more hormones shifting down (such as Leptin and a few others that regulate homeostasis in the body) as mass is added on. As well as an uptick of myostatin (and likely other hormones) that starts to limit how much muscle mass can be added in a certain amount of time.

    Granted, most of the studies (and therefore, scientific data) we have is based off of rat and sometimes cattle models, but AAS are not widely studied in humans at this time.

    OP; 100mg would likely be enough to stop any potential loss in muscle mass if you are also lifting (with high intensity) and eating a high protein diet. Personally, I would suggest a bit higher, as 100mg/week would likely not put you in ideal levels of Total Testosterone and Free Testosterone in your blood. I would suggest 6-8 weeks of ~150mg/week, getting bloods around the 6 week mark to dial in your dosage, to prevent muscle mass.

    Tbf though, 3 grams of gear is a bit ambiguous. Would want to know your general compounds used (specifically; how much test did you use? And what were the other compounds?) and what the esters were. 3g of Test Prop, NPP, and Tren A are much different than 3g of Test U, EQ, and Deca if you know what I mean.
    [/quote]
    Yeah I get what you mean about the compounds bro, I was using Test E, Deca and EQ at a gram each, silly ass cycle for sure haha just an experiment

  • [quote=“DonaldPump” pid=‘60544’ dateline=‘1562948589’]
    [quote=“DNPstoney” pid=‘60525’ dateline=‘1562931075’]
    [quote=“appropionate” pid=‘60520’ dateline=‘1562926697’]
    is receptor sensitivity in regards to gear even a proven thing? would appreciate some science dropped on this (no broscience or anecdotes please)
    [/quote]

    God damn man, appropionate coming in with the real questions. I was so down to leave this as a “bro-science = But my receptors dawg” thread lol.

    AFAIK, no, there is no link between “receptors” (though, I am not sure what this means honestly) and too much gear use. The question become more hormones shifting down (such as Leptin and a few others that regulate homeostasis in the body) as mass is added on. As well as an uptick of myostatin (and likely other hormones) that starts to limit how much muscle mass can be added in a certain amount of time.

    Granted, most of the studies (and therefore, scientific data) we have is based off of rat and sometimes cattle models, but AAS are not widely studied in humans at this time.

    OP; 100mg would likely be enough to stop any potential loss in muscle mass if you are also lifting (with high intensity) and eating a high protein diet. Personally, I would suggest a bit higher, as 100mg/week would likely not put you in ideal levels of Total Testosterone and Free Testosterone in your blood. I would suggest 6-8 weeks of ~150mg/week, getting bloods around the 6 week mark to dial in your dosage, to prevent muscle mass.

    Tbf though, 3 grams of gear is a bit ambiguous. Would want to know your general compounds used (specifically; how much test did you use? And what were the other compounds?) and what the esters were. 3g of Test Prop, NPP, and Tren A are much different than 3g of Test U, EQ, and Deca if you know what I mean.
    [/quote]
    Yeah I get what you mean about the compounds bro, I was using Test E, Deca and EQ at a gram each, silly ass cycle for sure haha just an experiment
    [/quote]

    A bit uneven man (something link 750mg Test, 600mg Deca, 1200mg EQ rather than gram each) but not going to act like I have not done similar cycles that don’t make a ton of sense when you look back. The ol’ hindsight is 20/20; plus, we are here for risk prevention, not to lecture each other about gear use haha.

    EQ and Deca are long esters. Meaning they likely won’t be out of your system for ~5 weeks after the end of your cycle.

    My 2c: Drop Test E to ~150mg/week for 8 weeks. Around week 7, get bloodtest. What you want is Cholesterol, CMP, and Total Testosterone. That way, you can see what 150mg/week puts you at for future reference. If you are at 400ng/dl, you might want to increase it to 200mg/week. If you are at 1200ng/dl, you might want to decrease it to 100mg/weeek. A good goal point is ~800ng/dl with no AI needed.

    Honestly, pretty much all studies on AAS have been on rats and cattle AFAIK, so we are all pretty much our own guinea pigs on how we react to certain compounds. The “standard” cruise is 4-8 weeks. This changes based on experience, willingness to blast, need to blast (time requirements), esters used, etc.

    If, for what ever reason, you don’t want to or can’t get bloods, I would say drop down to 150mg/week of Test E for 8-12 weeks and then you would likely be good to go. Not perfect, not much (if any) data to back that up, but if you cruised (150mg/week Test E and that’s it, besides AI) for 2-3 months and were not able to get bloods, I would say you are good to go for blasting.

  • [quote=“DNPstoney” pid=‘60548’ dateline=‘1562949424’]
    [quote=“DonaldPump” pid=‘60544’ dateline=‘1562948589’]
    [quote=“DNPstoney” pid=‘60525’ dateline=‘1562931075’]
    [quote=“appropionate” pid=‘60520’ dateline=‘1562926697’]
    is receptor sensitivity in regards to gear even a proven thing? would appreciate some science dropped on this (no broscience or anecdotes please)
    [/quote]

    God damn man, appropionate coming in with the real questions. I was so down to leave this as a “bro-science = But my receptors dawg” thread lol.

    AFAIK, no, there is no link between “receptors” (though, I am not sure what this means honestly) and too much gear use. The question become more hormones shifting down (such as Leptin and a few others that regulate homeostasis in the body) as mass is added on. As well as an uptick of myostatin (and likely other hormones) that starts to limit how much muscle mass can be added in a certain amount of time.

    Granted, most of the studies (and therefore, scientific data) we have is based off of rat and sometimes cattle models, but AAS are not widely studied in humans at this time.

    OP; 100mg would likely be enough to stop any potential loss in muscle mass if you are also lifting (with high intensity) and eating a high protein diet. Personally, I would suggest a bit higher, as 100mg/week would likely not put you in ideal levels of Total Testosterone and Free Testosterone in your blood. I would suggest 6-8 weeks of ~150mg/week, getting bloods around the 6 week mark to dial in your dosage, to prevent muscle mass.

    Tbf though, 3 grams of gear is a bit ambiguous. Would want to know your general compounds used (specifically; how much test did you use? And what were the other compounds?) and what the esters were. 3g of Test Prop, NPP, and Tren A are much different than 3g of Test U, EQ, and Deca if you know what I mean.
    [/quote]
    Yeah I get what you mean about the compounds bro, I was using Test E, Deca and EQ at a gram each, silly ass cycle for sure haha just an experiment
    [/quote]

    A bit uneven man (something link 750mg Test, 600mg Deca, 1200mg EQ rather than gram each) but not going to act like I have not done similar cycles that don’t make a ton of sense when you look back. The ol’ hindsight is 20/20; plus, we are here for risk prevention, not to lecture each other about gear use haha.

    EQ and Deca are long esters. Meaning they likely won’t be out of your system for ~5 weeks after the end of your cycle.

    My 2c: Drop Test E to ~150mg/week for 8 weeks. Around week 7, get bloodtest. What you want is Cholesterol, CMP, and Total Testosterone. That way, you can see what 150mg/week puts you at for future reference. If you are at 400ng/dl, you might want to increase it to 200mg/week. If you are at 1200ng/dl, you might want to decrease it to 100mg/weeek. A good goal point is ~800ng/dl with no AI needed.

    Honestly, pretty much all studies on AAS have been on rats and cattle AFAIK, so we are all pretty much our own guinea pigs on how we react to certain compounds. The “standard” cruise is 4-8 weeks. This changes based on experience, willingness to blast, need to blast (time requirements), esters used, etc.

    If, for what ever reason, you don’t want to or can’t get bloods, I would say drop down to 150mg/week of Test E for 8-12 weeks and then you would likely be good to go. Not perfect, not much (if any) data to back that up, but if you cruised (150mg/week Test E and that’s it, besides AI) for 2-3 months and were not able to get bloods, I would say you are good to go for blasting.
    [/quote]

    Thank you for that reply bro that was exactly what I was wanting to hear. I actually switched to cyp since the ester is a bit longer and I can just jab once a week, but I’m not against going back to Test E at 150, seems like a great idea.

  • [quote=“DonaldPump” pid=‘60551’ dateline=‘1562950897’]
    [quote=“DNPstoney” pid=‘60548’ dateline=‘1562949424’]
    [quote=“DonaldPump” pid=‘60544’ dateline=‘1562948589’]
    [quote=“DNPstoney” pid=‘60525’ dateline=‘1562931075’]
    [quote=“appropionate” pid=‘60520’ dateline=‘1562926697’]
    is receptor sensitivity in regards to gear even a proven thing? would appreciate some science dropped on this (no broscience or anecdotes please)
    [/quote]

    God damn man, appropionate coming in with the real questions. I was so down to leave this as a “bro-science = But my receptors dawg” thread lol.

    AFAIK, no, there is no link between “receptors” (though, I am not sure what this means honestly) and too much gear use. The question become more hormones shifting down (such as Leptin and a few others that regulate homeostasis in the body) as mass is added on. As well as an uptick of myostatin (and likely other hormones) that starts to limit how much muscle mass can be added in a certain amount of time.

    Granted, most of the studies (and therefore, scientific data) we have is based off of rat and sometimes cattle models, but AAS are not widely studied in humans at this time.

    OP; 100mg would likely be enough to stop any potential loss in muscle mass if you are also lifting (with high intensity) and eating a high protein diet. Personally, I would suggest a bit higher, as 100mg/week would likely not put you in ideal levels of Total Testosterone and Free Testosterone in your blood. I would suggest 6-8 weeks of ~150mg/week, getting bloods around the 6 week mark to dial in your dosage, to prevent muscle mass.

    Tbf though, 3 grams of gear is a bit ambiguous. Would want to know your general compounds used (specifically; how much test did you use? And what were the other compounds?) and what the esters were. 3g of Test Prop, NPP, and Tren A are much different than 3g of Test U, EQ, and Deca if you know what I mean.
    [/quote]
    Yeah I get what you mean about the compounds bro, I was using Test E, Deca and EQ at a gram each, silly ass cycle for sure haha just an experiment
    [/quote]

    A bit uneven man (something link 750mg Test, 600mg Deca, 1200mg EQ rather than gram each) but not going to act like I have not done similar cycles that don’t make a ton of sense when you look back. The ol’ hindsight is 20/20; plus, we are here for risk prevention, not to lecture each other about gear use haha.

    EQ and Deca are long esters. Meaning they likely won’t be out of your system for ~5 weeks after the end of your cycle.

    My 2c: Drop Test E to ~150mg/week for 8 weeks. Around week 7, get bloodtest. What you want is Cholesterol, CMP, and Total Testosterone. That way, you can see what 150mg/week puts you at for future reference. If you are at 400ng/dl, you might want to increase it to 200mg/week. If you are at 1200ng/dl, you might want to decrease it to 100mg/weeek. A good goal point is ~800ng/dl with no AI needed.

    Honestly, pretty much all studies on AAS have been on rats and cattle AFAIK, so we are all pretty much our own guinea pigs on how we react to certain compounds. The “standard” cruise is 4-8 weeks. This changes based on experience, willingness to blast, need to blast (time requirements), esters used, etc.

    If, for what ever reason, you don’t want to or can’t get bloods, I would say drop down to 150mg/week of Test E for 8-12 weeks and then you would likely be good to go. Not perfect, not much (if any) data to back that up, but if you cruised (150mg/week Test E and that’s it, besides AI) for 2-3 months and were not able to get bloods, I would say you are good to go for blasting.
    [/quote]

    Thank you for that reply bro that was exactly what I was wanting to hear. I actually switched to cyp since the ester is a bit longer and I can just jab once a week, but I’m not against going back to Test E at 150, seems like a great idea.
    [/quote]

    Cryp is a bit longer, but not much. IIRC; Test C is something like 2-5% longer than Test E.

    Test U is 4 times longer than Test E; up to ~7 times longer if it is in castor oil. Way (waaaay) less flexibility when coming off though. That is the main downside; it is only really applicable if you are BnC for life.

  • [quote=“barneys” pid=‘60501’ dateline=‘1562905334’]
    No way that dude maintains those boulder delts on 100mg per week of test. Maybe 100mg per week of tren…
    [/quote]

    Why u say that? I have rounded shoulders just like that and I’m more ripped than him. His body looks a tad puffy to me even though he looks to be a decent size guy. He said he had way too many sides from 500 a week, which is where he started and regretted it and would start much lower if he could go back in time. I don’t know every single video he’s ever done but maybe he mixes in some orals… I couldn’t tell u that. You could be on 125mg of TRT AND do dbol every now and then to maintain the rounded shoulders. Mine tend to stay VERY round as long as I k3eep working them out non-stop. At one point they looked a bit comical so i laid off. I looked VERY un-natty. I hit shoulders for like 2 weeks straight because of a sore tendon in my bicep. His don’t look ridiculous by any means to me. He says he doesn’t take Tren as he’s not into drugs used for cattle.

  • [quote=“alphaproject” pid=‘60645’ dateline=‘1562987860’]
    [quote=“barneys” pid=‘60501’ dateline=‘1562905334’]
    No way that dude maintains those boulder delts on 100mg per week of test. Maybe 100mg per week of tren…
    [/quote]

    Why u say that? I have rounded shoulders just like that and I’m more ripped than him. His body looks a tad puffy to me even though he looks to be a decent size guy. He said he had way too many sides from 500 a week, which is where he started and regretted it and would start much lower if he could go back in time. I don’t know every single video he’s ever done but maybe he mixes in some orals… I couldn’t tell u that. You could be on 125mg of TRT AND do dbol every now and then to maintain the rounded shoulders. Mine tend to stay VERY round as long as I k3eep working them out non-stop. At one point they looked a bit comical so i laid off. I looked VERY un-natty. I hit shoulders for like 2 weeks straight because of a sore tendon in my bicep. His don’t look ridiculous by any means to me. He says he doesn’t take Tren as he’s not into drugs used for cattle.
    [/quote]

    I think you misunderstood his post. He was saying that he think it’s unlikely that he is able to maintain his physique with just 100mg/week of Test alone. You say you disagree with him, then go on to prove his point lol; you said he can maintain that size on 125mg/week Test (higher than initially stated) and some Dbol use.

    But looking at the guy, I do agree that his mass could easily be maintained on a cruise dose. If he wants his physique to still be decent, he can throw in another compound occasionally (like Dbol).

    I know he is a real bro-science guy and his main goal is more connecting with his audience rather than stating actual facts, but “He says he doesn’t take Tren as he’s not into drugs used for cattle.” is really dumb. I assume he just said that so that some of his viewers would hear it and not take Tren, and I bet (hope) he has better reasons for not using it personally. Not taking a drug simply because it was used with or designed for cattle is a really shitty idea. So many drugs that we commonly use today (not just AAS - drugs in general) were designed and used in cattle before humans started using them.

  • You haven’t seen enough of his vids. I never said he couldn’t maintain it, someone else did. I couldn’t care less if he is being honest or not but he actually doesn’t really bro-science it, like you claim. In most of his video he brings up more science based evidence backing up what he says or otherwise no one would believe a word he says. Don’t take this the wrong way, I just saw what he posted and relayed it here for others to make th3eir own minds up. Why would I care if you don’t believe him, I’m not invested in his life. Dude could drop dead tomorrow for all I care. He calls out fake natty’s a lot, gets into the drama of making money from instagram claiming you’re natty when it’s obvious you aren’t… shit like that. He also analyzes people’s insane stacks that look like shit.

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